original sin

So, in a post talking about whether or not Christians are “under attack”, in discussing South Park’s eviscerations of Christianity and other religions, John Carney says this:

They had a storyline which made fun of fundamentalists for opposing the teaching of evolution, but also mocked the atheist viewpoint that everything would be so much better if we didn’t have those darn religious people mucking things up. In “South Park”’s projected future, the atheists have done away with religion, only to fall into their own holy wars between various factions of atheism. The problem is not religion, they seemed to be saying, it’s human beings.

And, I disagree. I mean, that is – it may be an accurate description of what Parker and Stone are going for, though I tend to think a better description is just that they are blissfully irreverent, but whatever.

But I hate the sentiment of the last sentence, which seems to have gotten a good reaction in the comments. The implication in saying “the problem is .. human beings” is that human beings are ultimately, innately flawed. I admit my gut reaction to this was to find it ironic that this itself is actually a concept deeply rooted in the Christian ethos. The idea of “human nature” as being a flawed or corrupt existence is a pervasive one in the Christian religion. In most sects of Christianity, I’d argue that it’s taken as a given that humans are flawed beings who require God’s mercy and salvation, and you can see this reflected back to Hobbs and his idea of a nasty, brutish, short “state of nature”, and even further. It’s a very powerful idea – powerful because it’s an excellent tool for reinforcing authority. If it’s a given that human beings are cruel, evil and flawed when left to their own devices, it’s easy to justify authority (whether the church’s or, now, a state’s) in reigning us in. (This is somewhat related to my opinion that Christianity can be difficult, but not impossible to reconcile with Libertarianism. Aunt B and I and others had a conversation about Glen Dean or something at one point, but I can’t find it. I also have noted in the past the opposite: Christianity used as a tool to refute libertarianism in favor of authoritarianism. This, also, is another blog post.)

Anyways, so .. I checked my thoughts at this point: my knowledge of this flawed-human guilt complex is mostly limited to Christianity, but it would be silly of me to assume it hasn’t appeared in other religions. I would, however, argue that it is probably most pervasive in the Christian religion. While I considered this, my thoughts wandered to probably the most extreme instance of Christian self-flagellation in history, which was .. well, self-flagellation. Mortification of the flesh. They loved this shit in the middle ages. This practice of self-inflicted flogging was rooted in the idea that by inflicting pain and suffering upon yourself, you absolve your sins and become closer to god, or something like that. It was also deeply rooted in the fundamental idea that humans are bad (mmkay), e.g. “Put to death what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.” (Col 3:5).

So I found myself wondering if there were parallels of this in any other religions. One that came to mind was “zanjeer matam”, a Shiite ceremony involving flagellation with a chain & curved knives to commemorate the day of Ashura. This is similar on its surface, but appears not to be entirely the same. The goal of this symbolic act is to sympathize with the suffering and death of the martyr Husayn, which is similar to the Christian goal of relating to Christ’s crucifixion, but it appears to lack the whole “put to death what is earthly in you” element. Maybe.

So, the question: do you agree that the concept of “human nature” as a flawed state is most pervasive in the Christian religion? Are there others in which it’s more pervasive?


Comments

This is definitely not unique to Christianity.

Ken Wilber (writer and Buddhist monk) wrote about what he calls the ‘perennial philosophy’ (no relation to the Aldous Huxley book). In it he outlines the 7 similarities of all moral religions (with a moral religion being one where you can gain and lose the favor of the god[s]). I am going to be lazy and not go look it up in my book, but I think the very first similarity of those seven religions is that we (humans) live in a fallen or illusory state.

Buddhism definitely has a strong belief in the concept of “human nature” as a flawed state. That extends to the good and the bad, both pleasure and pain are just as illusory.

To get back to the root of what bugged you – are you saying that human beings, as we are, are not innately flawed? And maybe flawed isn’t the right term, since all that was implied in the episode was that humans (and otters) are bound to find things to fight about. And I think we are, innately. I’m more curious about whether humanity is fundamentally prone towards conflict – if we manage to write xenophobia out of out genetic and cultural makeup, how human will we be?

There are two problems with saying that human beings are “innately flawed”: the word “innately”, and the word “flawed”. First, I have a problem with “innate” in describing human nature, because, well, I don’t believe that innate human nature exists. Second, “flawed” is entirely relative, too. Flawed compared to what? Despite the fact that it can’t really mean anything, when one DOES take it as a given that human beings are “flawed”, they have no incentive to improve themselves or their situation, barring an injected incentive: i.e. the promise of heaven, or God’s shining approval, or the flying spaghetti monster’s meatball paradise, etc. It can also lead to the dangerous converse, which is: “I sin because I am human. I can’t help it, but it’s okay: god will forgive me because I believe in Jesus.”

It’s an inherently pessimistic worldview. I don’t have a utopian vision that I think would emerge without religion, no, but I think the idea that humans are inherently fucked leads to the opposite: a dystopia where construct these complicated social institutions to correct for our percieved “innate” failings.

The Buddhist conception is the polar opposite of the Christian conception. The Christian conception is that we are inherently evil and can only be ‘saved’ by the exterior force. The Buddhist conception is that we are born perfect and our perfect Buddha nature is always part of us, we just lose sight of it as we lose ourselves in samsara. We need no external force or savior to return to our perfect nature, only our own willingness to follow the path back to our true nature.

I knew (suspected) that Buddhism was subtlely different in this regard, because I did know that Buddhism at least preaches that you can reach enlightenment of your own volition, without the intervention of a deity who provides any sort of salvation.

I can’t say I know the first thing about Buddism. But I have “felt” for the longest time, that we are minute parts of one sort of live giving entity, that is, all of us are God, in the making. I’m sure someone will tell me what particular religious philosophy embraces this idea. I think the idea is too experience non “perfection”, so that when we reach a perfect state, we will have something to compare it to…sort of the hot/cold analogy.

Jon, I think you are painting Christianity with too broad of a brush. A fair amount of Christian faith systems are right in line with the idea that we (humanity as well as the individual human) began perfect and then fell into the illusory state (i.e. fallen).

There is distinct similarity in finding enlightenment through an awakening of the buddha within and entering heaven on earth through a relationship with jesus.

As for the external force, how is the dharma different than jesus? Both are external, and both provide the single path away from ‘worldly’ living.

Granted buddhism is more palatable than christianity due to the force feeding we receive from evangelicals and southern baptists.

Well, I did start off with a whole paragraph talking about how how subjective and vague “flawed” was, but I tossed it and assumed it would be assumed for the purposes of the discussion.

I think “innately” is less vague, but I still put some effort in clarifying what I meant there. I’m still more interested in the broader question of whether the flaw itself makes us human.

As a more direct question – do I believe in the pessimistic dystopia presented in South Park? No. I think that’s another example of them (blissfully, irreverently) talking out of their asses. I don’t think an atheistic society would make atheism itself a religion (a really common misconception of non-theists), but I have no doubt that if we did evolve to be all atheists, we’d find something to fight about. Unless, of course, we changed something fairly basic in human nature.

Also – you say considering yourself as “flawed” leaves no incentive to improve. I call BS on this one. If you’re not the Go/chess/tennis/whatever player in the world (or even if you are the best), do you give up because you’re not perfect? Of course not. It’s tempting sometimes, but just because we aren’t perfect doesn’t mean we can’t try.

You’re describing some pretty esoteric interpretations of Christian doctrine which require turning Original Sin and even Jesus himself into mere metaphors. I agree that if you make such interpretations, then Christianity does indeed become “another path to the top of the mountain”. But while such interpretations do exist, but they seem to me the exception, not the rule. It’s not what Joe Christian is taught in Sunday School.

I don’t really know what is the more prevalent belief for Christians, but you are probably right about Joe Christian. I would like to think that Christianity, like Islam, suffers from a very vocal minority (evangelicals, southern baptists).

Thomas Merton would be a good example of the style of Christianity that is ‘another path to the top of the mountain’.

Doug OrleansNovember 17, 2006 at 20:08 · reply

Dude, you should read The Blank Slate. It might make you reconsider your disbelief in human nature.

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