the best thing

Sometimes I say awesome things (in a discussion about the purpose or lack thereof of marriage):

Misery says, “I respect your belief that marriage is stupid. But I don’t think it is”
You say, “you haven’t done a very good job of convincing me”
You say, “so far we have: a) awesome party”
You say, “b) societal norm”
You say, “yeah, not convinced”
Misery says, “c) societal form that serves a function”
You say, “what function”
Misery says, “norm”
You ask, “compliance?”
Misery says, “like I said, our society is based on this dyad”
You say, “social or economic”

[blah blah blah – Chris]

You say, “I think marriage is positive as a way to subjugate the working person, and (less so now) as a way to subjugate women”
You say, “‘taxes’ is circular”
You say, “tax advantages are subsidization of marriage”
Misery says, “which is why the majority of the hegemony is married? That makes no sense”
Misery says, “marriage is USED as a weapon of the hegemony. Who are you kidding?”
You say, “that’s what i’m saying”
Misery says, “i.e., combine resources and make an empire”
You ask, “what?”
Misery says, “it serves a function”
You ask, “you’re saying marriage is a good thing because it allows rich people to join forces?”
You say, “the percentages of married people that are rich versus those who are not rich disagree with that assessment, anyway”
Misery says, “I’m saying I don’t know why marriage exists. I just know it’s used as a weapon of the rich to become richer”
Misery says, “it serves many functions”
You say, “like what”
Misery says, “holding up society”
You say, “what does that mean”
You ask, “is it turtles all the way down?”

Come on, that was pretty good, right? Turtles. Diss!! Yeah. Man, I’m a nerd.


Comments

ScavengerJuly 28, 2006 at 16:30 · reply

That was a dumb argument for marriage. It’s just a traditional way of signifying that two people are committed to each other (and to their children, if applicable.) It’s widely respected as such. It’s a very old institution.

It’s tough to argue about it, though. Since arguers are either married or not married, it’s easy for the argument to get personal. And, apparently, for the arguers to get irrational.

If you think that society sucks, and that you don’t need traditional signifiers, well that’s fine. And if you think that our society needs to expand the definitions of marriage, why I agree with you 100%. And if you think that your committment is strong and you don’t want the legal consequences of marriage to interfere with your feelings for each other, I can totally understand that.

It is definitely a three-way bargain, and probably always has been. You, your spouse, and the state. And it’s very easy for me to agree that keeping the government out of a perfectly good relationship seems like it might not be a bad idea.

But for me, I’m willing to adopt the traditional signifier, and I can cope with the legal baggage. It means something to me that my wife was willing to do that, too.

And for anyone who’s ascribing additional benefits to marriage, like the ability to have children, or lower taxes, or a billboard saying you support society so it better help you, I urge you to also consider who you’re punishing.

I think that you are thinking wayway too much about it, Chris. Speaking as a happily married man, I can simply tell you that for me, love and marriage are both decisions and commitments.

I said to Susan “I love you with all of me and I want to spend the rest of my life with you and no other, and I’m willing to demonstrate that decision by becoming your husband.”

You’ll notice that I’m sidestepping all of the religious mumbo–I’m not into that anymore. The symbol of marriage for me now is about my inner and outer commitment to my partnership with my wife.

The outer commitment is symbolized in a small way by my wedding band, which serves to fend off all those women that I have approaching me every day…yeah right. And, of course, it is much easier to ‘do business’ in the world (buy a house, etc.) as a married couple than as an unmarried couple.

The inner commitment, for me anyway, comes in…well, you probably know all of this, Chris. It’s just ‘life partner’ stuff. Is my respect, devotion, fidelity, and so forth, any different now that Sue and I are married as opposed to when we were just dating or engaged? Well, no. The fact that we are ‘legally bound’ doesn’t keep me faithful to my wife. However, there is no denying that the stakes go up considerably (especially when children are involved) when you’re hitched.

Did any of this make sense? I don’t regret a single minute of my nearly four years of marriage. Our four-year anniverary is actually coming up on August 3.

Thanks, Tim

Well, yeah, all of that is valid. And it’s heteropatriarchal, for that matter, as well as overly simplistic: what about committed households of more than two people? I know plenty of triads and quads who might jump at the chance to enjoy some of society’s benefits to sanctioned relationships (i.e., those consisting of one male and one female). And I used to think I’d never get married.

But you know, when Karsten and I got married anyway (we thought we were going to have to file for bankruptcy – which we didn’t end up having to do – and would have needed to be married to clear all our debt), we found, to our surprise, that we liked it. I mean, we always intended to be together “forever” anyway, married or not; but after we were married, it just suddenly made sense in a way it hadn’t before. It’s hard to articulate.

But I’m definitely a staunch advocate of broadening the definition of marriage to include, at a minimum, any consenting adult couple. Beyond that, I’d like to see some thought given to supporting committed relationships of more than two people. But for now, I’d like to start simple: just knowing that there are couples who’ve been together longer than I’ve been alive but can’t get married makes me sick to my stomach.

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