Winter Soldiers

With the recent emergence of John Kerry as a frontrunner in the race for the Democratic nomination, his involvement with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) and the Winter Soldier Investigation are surfacing, as well they should, since it was clearly a defining period in John Kerry’s life. The transcript of John Kerry’s testimony before congress can be found here.

But a flagrantly unverifiable falsehood seems to be emerging, as well: namely, that the testimony of soldiers in the Winter Soldier Investigation were falsified. For example, Rich Lowry, an editor at The National Review, has blatantly denounced the investigation. From an article in the NRO (my emphasis added):

In his famed 1971 anti-war congressional testimony, Kerry cited the so-called Winter Soldier Investigation, which gathered falsified testimonials of atrocities committed by American soldiers. Kerry regurgitated stories of rapes, beheadings, torture and pillaging (“in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan”) as part of his indictment against the Vietnam War.

This is a statement shot through with mendacity. Let’s take it sentence by sentence: 1) The Winter Soldier testimony was not “highly documented,” but – as Mack Owens of the Naval War College and NRO has reported – totally unsubstantiated. The fantastic stories of atrocities should have been unbelievable to any Vietnam vet. 2) Kerry didn’t “help people understand what was going on,” but rather helped publicize lies.

Mackubin Thomas Owens, also from an article in the NRO:

In fact, the entire Winter Soldiers Investigation was a lie. It was inspired by Mark Lane’s 1970 book entitled Conversations with Americans, which claimed to recount atrocity stories by Vietnam veterans. This book was panned by James Reston Jr. and Neil Sheehan, not exactly known as supporters of the Vietnam War. Sheehan in particular demonstrated that many of Lane’s “eye witnesses” either had never served in Vietnam or had not done so in the capacity they claimed.

This is a pretty serious accusation, it seems, and a pervasive one, too. This accusation is echoed all over the media and is considered a factual talking point on the right. A quick survey of some of the right-leaning blogs I read:

Bill Hobbs calls Kerry’s testimony “slanderous” and claims that Kerry “described events he had not witnessed and which, in fact, were later shown to be falsified, undermining the war effort while giving hope to the enemy. It was consistent with his future votes to gut U.S. intelligence services and the military.”

“AlphaPatriot” calls Kerry a compulsive liar.

You get the idea. But where did this accusation come from? Owens’ accusation is a classic bait-and-switch, as he actually only cites the WSI as being “inspired” by Mark Lane’s book, which he then attempts to shoot down. Fallacious or not, Lane’s book is not the Winter Soldier Investigation. I have searched extensively on google.com trying to find a shred of real evidence that the WSI testimonies were fraudulent, but I can’t find it. Of course, google is hardly a comprehensive source.

So, when faced with a question, I find that it’s best to try to find a concrete answer rather than speculate. I contacted Fritz Efaw, a representative of VVAW here in TN, who also relayed some information from VVAW national coordinator John Zutz. I asked them if they knew if these accusations were true, and if not, what evidence they had to refute the claims. Here’s what Fritz had to say:

The claims that the WSI hearings contained falsified testimony from men who were not veterans is an old one, and it’s definitely false. The testimony was startling even at the time it took place: startling to the general public, startling to the military and the Nixon administration, and startling to those who participated because each of them knew a piece of the story, but the hearings brought a great many of them together for the first time and provided a venue in which they could be heard for the first time. It’s hardly surprising that those on the other side would set out almost immediately to discredit them.

He also included a letter from John Zutz, in response to a similar, but more direct question: “Do you require members to show a copy of their DD Forms 214 in order to become a member?” A question hinting, obviously, that some of the testimony was from civilians, not veterans, and therefore not trustworthy. Zutz’s response:

First, the accusations in “Stolen Valor” that guys who testified at Winter Soldier weren’t vets isn’t true. I personally talked to one of the VVAW members who examined every witness’s DD214 and compared it to his ID (some civilian, some military). I can tell you they were all vets with Vietnam service.

Second, VVAW is a non-profit organization. Non-veterans are allowed to become members. However the fact is the overwhelming majority of our members are veterans. Vietnam, certainly. Gulf war, a few. Korea and WWII as well. And don’t forget all those little expeditions like Panama, Grenada, Somalia, Haiti, Afghanistan, Bosnia, etc, etc.

We realize there are some who will try to use this policy to smear us. On the other hand, I am happy that my wife has as much voice in VVAW as I do. In my mind she is a Vietnam vet too. When I’m awake prowling the house at 3 a.m. she’s awake too. When I’m crippled by my service connected disability she cares for me. When I had my Agent Orange caused cancer surgically removed she was at my bedside. When I do veterans related stuff she supports me.

You could say everyone in the US is a Vietnam veteran. It affected everyone who lived through it. We just finished paying for all those bombs and boats and boots and guns and canteen cups last year. It’s still affecting our politics today.

So, that clears up a few things right away. Namely, that the VVAW at least compared ID with DD214s to verify. Yes, it’s possible that the VVAW were duped, or even lied themselves, but I find no evidence as such.

To summarize:

The argument you usually hear put forth is, basically, “John Kerry slandered/betrayed his fellow soldiers with false accusations.”

This, clearly, is false, since we know that Kerry was simply paraphrasing testimony from veterans themselves in the Winter Soldier Investigation.

The next rebuttal is usually that “Well, the Winter Soldier Investigation was a fraud, perpetrated by civilian members of VVAW”, or as I like to refer to it, the “damn dirty hippies” defense.

Mr. Efaw and Mr. Zutz both put forth a pretty convincing argument that this testimony was legitimate and delivered by veterans. I have been able to uncover no credible evidence that a fraud was perpetrated.

Seeing as how these testimonies were entered into the congressional record by Sen. Mark O. Hatfield, I find it difficult to believe that all of this testimony was falsified without greater controversy. Some, perhaps, but that eliminates the force of the argument: Despite the possibility that some testimony may have been falsified, the evidence of atrocities committed on both sides in Vietnam is irrefutable, and we have verifiable, documented examples such as My Lai as examples that bad things did happen. Vietnam was a war, and war is hell. There’s no rational reason for doubting this testimony.

Furthermore, I think it’s also important to note that the mention of these atrocities is a very small part of Kerry’s testimony. The bulk of his testimony was spent questioning the motives for the war and wisdom of continuing it. The wisdom of asking young men to “die for a mistake”, as Kerry put it. This is hardly slanderous.

There’s also a deeper fallacy at work here. Another argument frequently put forth is that John Kerry and anti-war activists like him were responsible for the demoralization of our forces in Vietnam, and by extension, responsible for the loss of the war.

First, as I’ve mentioned before, the argument that criticism of a war effort back home has any impact on a soldier’s actual motivation to not get shot is specious at best. But, even taking it as a given, if there is a sizeable opposition to a war such that it results in the demoralization of our forces, does that justify being silent? My answer to that is a resounding “Hell, no”. If a war’s motives are so doubted back home that they have such a substantial effect as causing the war to be lost, we should be rethinking our involvement in the first place.

Bill Hobbs quoted an article in the LA Times where Vietnam veteran Dewey Brown is paraphrased:

Good soldiers do their duty and keep their mouths shut. They don’t come home to criticize their country’s mission while others are still fighting. But that, in his view, is what Kerry did.

I couldn’t disagree more. John Kerry did his duty as a soldier, and he did it honorably. He then came home, and did his duty as a responsible citizen of this country. He spoke out. I think Dwight D. Eisenhower put it best:

Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels – men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, we may never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.

UPDATE: More details here.


Comments

Kevin HurstMarch 02, 2004 at 16:28 · reply

I guess some people will believe anything. The Navy Investigative Service tried to interview veterans involved and found that, even with immunity, none would swear to what they witnessed. Even worse, many veterans swore to investigators that they had not been present in Detroit when testimony was given in their name. Apparently, other people gave testimony on their behalf without their knowledge. I believe many of these fake witnesses may have been civilian, thus undermining red herring that forms the bulk of your rebuttal to the critics of the war crimes testimony. Many of the veterans lied about their service, including many of the VVAW leaders, in ways that severely undermined their testimony. I can’t think of one scholar who has looked at the Winter Soldiers testimony and come away being able to put any credence in the allegations of that fanciful piece of political theatre. Were acts contrary to the laws of war committed in Vietnam? Of course. Do they bear any remote resemblance to John Kerry’s testimony. No.

Kevin Hurst Historian Naval Historical Center

The Navy Investigative Service tried to interview veterans involved and found that, even with immunity, none would swear to what they witnessed.

Despite your loaded wording, these men declining to be interviewed does not prove their testimony was fraudulent.

Even worse, many veterans swore to investigators that they had not been present in Detroit when testimony was given in their name.

Do you have an example? The names of all the men, along with their testimony, is listed here. Can you tell me which veteran on that page was a fraud? I find it difficult to believe they’d allow their names to be used fraudulently in such a public place. Thanks.

I believe many of these fake witnesses may have been civilian, thus undermining red herring that forms the bulk of your rebuttal to the critics of the war crimes testimony.

Do you have some evidence as such? John Zutz says they checked the DD214 of every person that testified. Do you have some evidence that refutes this claim?

Many of the veterans lied about their service, including many of the VVAW leaders, in ways that severely undermined their testimony. I can’t think of one scholar who has looked at the Winter Soldiers testimony and come away being able to put any credence in the allegations of that fanciful piece of political theatre. Were acts contrary to the laws of war committed in Vietnam? Of course.

If it’s so self-evident that atrocities occurred in Vietnam, then why do you cast so much doubt on the WSI?

Do they bear any remote resemblance to John Kerry’s testimony. No.

No? It would seem to me the atrocities described in the Winter Soldier Investigation fall in line with many more rigorously documented atrocities – My Lai, for example, as mentioned before.

I guess some people will believe anything.

Indeed. I, on the other hand, am more readily swayed by facts. Do you have any? You’re a historian, right? Do you have, perhaps, a name? That would be a good start.

I’ve stressed that debunking a few of the veterans that testified as frauds wouldn’t blunt the force of Kerry’s testimony (of which the paraphrasal of the WSI was a small part), or the WSI itself, because the evidence of these atrocities is overwhelming (as you yourself note). But I’ve been unable to find even one. Can I get one? One name? We can start there.

Then maybe it will be easier to uncover some more facts that show how the WSI was fraudulent, and why we should, therefore, discredit Kerry’s testimony.

You’re right: some people will believe anything. I’m still waiting for you to explain why, though.

gary winkMarch 18, 2004 at 13:39 · reply

HELLO: I AM TRYING TO READ THROUGHT THE WINTER SOLDIER TESTIMONY. I AM ABOUT HALF THROUGH. I WOULD SAY IT IS ABOUT 50/50. MANY TRUTHS, SOME EXAGERATED, AND SOME MADE UP. THE NAPALM, AGENT ORANGE AND WHITE PHOSPEROUS CANNOT BE DENIED. THERE WAS TOO MUCH VISUAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT.

I HAVE HAD THE “PUSHING VC OUT OF HELICOPTORS” VERIFIED BY TWO MEN I KNOW AND WHOSE CREDENTIALS ARE IMPECCABLE.

MY CONCLUSIONS ARE THAT, AS A NAM VET, I KNOW THESE THINGS TOOK PLACE, BUT I DOUBT THEY WERE AS WIDESPREAD AS SOME OF THE WINTER SOLDIERS STATED. GARY WINK, USN, VIETNAM, 1968-1970

For other documented atrocities, try the Toledo Blade’s PULITZER PRIZE winning series:

http://www.toledoblade.com/…

I wish America would have listened and heeded John Kerry when he spoke about atrocities in Vietnam. And wisely, he placed the preponderance of blame on the leadership, not on the troops.

The same thing has now happened in Iraq. Information seems to indicate that Military Intelligence used the troops to ‘soften the prisoners’ before they underwent interrogations.

Yet it is the soldiers who are being court-martialed. The ones who ordered and approved of the tactics are merely being reprimanded. Once again the enlisted guy is the scapegoat for the military brass.

If we had listened to Kerry, we might not now be facing international humiliation, even more hatred by Iraqis and Arabs, and increased hostilities by fundamentalist insurgents.

Now we will see more of our troops die at the hands of the enraged Iraqis. Terrorism is escalating. If Vietnam was a quagmire, Iraq is bordering on pure strategic catastrophe.

It is time to end the WAR MENTALITY that we have in this country. We need to learn that war doesn’t solve problems, it creates more problems.

It is the same mind set as what Kerry testified to in 1971. I have been reading the Winter Soldier Investigation on the University of Virginia page, the Sixties. I doubt very seriously that a respected university would have false testimony on its pages.

When the troops speak of gooks, you may now substitute Hajji. Each term depersonalizes and makes it easier to torture and kill. If you have not read Kerry’s speech to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, I urge you do so. The ending statement of the Winter Soldiers Investigation is also very illuminating. It could have been given today.

If these horrendous acts were so widespread I believe there’d be some pictures floating around. The photojournalists were always looking for “the story”. And no, they didn’t stay in the rear. There were 135 photojournalists killed in Vietnam. I suspect some of this happened, though I never saw it in two years. It happened in World War II and there was no racial angle. I don’t believe the Winter Soldier testimony because I’ve heard too many made up Vietnam stories. I will say this. I think it was shameful for John Kerry to launch a political career on hearsay and denigrate people he – supposedly – fought with.

John BeitzelSeptember 23, 2004 at 01:13 · reply

I testified at the Winter Soldier investigation in 1971. I told the truth and to my knowledge not a single statement has ever proven to be false. I have heard a lot of false claims that the people at winter soldier were not veterans. If so many people were frauds at the Winter Soldier Investigation, why hasn’t someone released the names of the vets who falsely testified? Wouldn’t this be front page news? Maybe one or two frauds slipped through but I doubt it. The truth of the matter is no one was allowed to testify at the Winter Soldier Investigation unless they had DD214 military seperation papers. For years I tried to tell everyone who was willing to listen, about the official and defacto policies of our government that were against the Geneva Convention. They were in fact war crimes. I testified before Congress, before the U.N. Human rights Commission, at the Winter Soldier Investigation, at public hearings, at the Philadelphia Naval Base Criminal Investigation Department, and at the Pentagon. We spoke out against the POLICIES of our government, that were in violation of US law as well as International law. We never spoke out against our fellow soldiers. After all they were our friends, family members and neighbors. I went to the Naval Criminal Investigation Division and told them if they were interested in pursuing those responsible for the policies that resulted in war crimes, I would give them a sworn statement including pictures of war crimes that I personally took. They said they would get back to me but they never did. No one has ever challenged my statements, nor has anyone ever proven that I have made any untruthful statements. From my experiences as an infantry veteran, I was deeply concerned about my fellow soldiers in Vietnam being killed, or coming home severly injured. I wanted the war to come to an end, so that the destuction and madness in Vietnam would also come to an end. I lost many friends in Vietnam. Some were fellow soldiers and others were friends that I grew up with and knew from an early age. Earlier this year (2/2004), I returned to Vietnam and visited the old basecamps and battlefields from my year in Vietnam 35 years ago. It was reassuring and very healing, to experience the peace, that is the reality of today’s Vietnam. Almost no one in Vietnam talks about the “American War.” To them it is ancient history. It is certainly sad to see so many of the old wounds being reopened and the old debates argued once again. In 1971, the members of VVAW were looking for a way to help put an end to the war, and bring peace to this country, as well as Vietnam. The members of VVAW that I knew were good people, with good hearts, that were trying to do the right thing. I have no regrets about working for peace. I still know many VVAW members today. All of them are very proud of their efforts in working for peace. It’s time to put the Vietnam debate behind us. It’s time to debate the current issues of today. And, let the chips fall where they may.

Hoa Binh John Beitzel, Vietnam Veteran 4/21 Infantry, 11th Bde, Americal Division. 1/1969 - 1/1970 Member - VVAW 9/1970 - 9/1971 Winter Soldier - Jan/Feb-1971

Peter MoranAugust 29, 2006 at 06:02 · reply

Mr. Beitzel,

I found your testimony, along with that of Scott Camil and Rusty Sachs, to be particularly insightful and eye-opening in Winter Soldier.

Thank you for serving in the US Army and thanks for having the guts to tell the truth about what you witnessed. All I know is that either one can’t be an easy experience.

The skeptics never check facts…they just throw up some convoluted logic and fallacious arguments to fortify their existing attitudes.

Peter Moran

MarcusAurelius45January 19, 2012 at 17:28 · reply

The opinion, by polling of Vietnam Veterans, including combat veterans with regard to”Winter Soldier” testimony rather than confirming the findings and conclusions of the same, adamantly contradicts the same asserting that, in fact, it was the NVA and VC who had a pattern and practice of terror and atrocity against the Vietnamese people while American soldiers had a reputation of protecting the Vietnamese from the same. These polls of Vietnam Veterans indicate that the assertion that there were wide spread and tolerated practices of War Crimes against the Vietnamese people and captured enemy soldiers was a blatant and blackguardly lie. Many enemy soldiers surrendered and, eventually, became “chu hoi’s”, former enemy soldiers who now worked with the allies. Where is the cruel treatment of enemy soldiers here? I remember one instance when my unit was proceeding to a forward post while on tracks (armoured vehicles). We were suddenly surrounded by a huge crowd of wailing and screaming Vietnamese women begging us with up raised arms to defend them against an attacking NVA unit which was approaching. Terror and war crimes were the “modus operandi” of the communist forces in Vietnam. These women were very aware of the same. They knew that Americans had a reputation of protecting them from war crimes and terror while the communists had a reputation of subjecting them to the same. The overwhelming testimony of Vietnam veterans contradicts that of the “Winter Soldier” testimony. Concomitant with the same is the probable fact that the “Winter Soldier” findings were funded and directed by communist operatives as a means to further the oppressive and authoritarian goals of Stalinist communism. It was nothing more than a well organized, well funded, and covert method of undermining the goals of the War in Vietnam, freedom, democracy, and liberty for the Vietnamese people and the peoples of South East Asia. I served with the U.S. Army;4th I.D.; 2/8th Inf.; RVN 1969-1970.

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